Lingerie FAQ

Compiled by Jonathan Allan kpa@millcomm.com and regularly posted to the alt.clothing.lingerie newsgroups.

This compilation is COPYRIGHT (C) 1995 by Jonathan Allan. It derives  almost all its content from the A.C.L USENET group readership, and the compiler wishes to thank each contributor for their effort. This  compilation may be freely distributed, but only in whole and unaltered  form, for educational purposes only, provided such distribution is  entirely electronic from source to end user and this copyright notice  is intact and unaltered.
All rights reserved.

The newsgroup alt.clothing.lingerie is worth looking at though it contains an extremely large amount of spam and sex advertising.

Baseball cup bra - It is a bra with cups sewn the way a baseball is sewn. Basically, it makes the cup very round, not pointy, and it has seams.
Basque - See Merrywidow
Bikini - panties cut low in the front, but likely a full back.
Bloomers - Until well into the nineteenth century, drawers were considered lewd and masculine, and ladies wore their skirt and petticoats only. Not until the 1840s did they begin to be generally worn. In the beginning, they were made with two tubular legs with the inside seams open in the upper half and the two legs linked only by the band at the waist. It was not until the 1880s that the legs were seamed together and an opening at the sides to fasten together became common.
Like the other dress fashions of the Victorian period, styles changed. In the middle years of the century, the legs ended well below the knees, but in the 1870s they shortened to the knees. In the 1880s the legs were gathered into a band with a frill below, instead of being straight.
One authority has stated that bloomers were usually worn underneath the corset, particularly in the late parts of the century, where the it was the corset that gave the shape of the hips, and therefore no bulk was tolerated. This was not true in the United Kingdom in the 1930 and later when they were worn over the corset or girdle.
The term bloomers is an American one, they are similar if not identical to what are called "Directoire Knickers" in the United Kingdom. The name comes from Mrs. Amelia Jenks Bloomer (1818-1984), an American advocate of "rational dress" for women, who is reputed to have first worn them. According to the Reader's Digest Great Encyclopaedic Dictionary bloomers were invented by Mrs.E.S.Miller and "consisted of a small jacket, a full skirt descending a little below the knee and trousers down to the ankles." It subsequently defines bloomers as "loose trousers reaching to the knees, knickerbockers, formerly worn by woman for gymnastics, cycling etc; undergarments of this shape."
Another authority says "the term bloomers did not originally refer to women's underwear. The original 'Bloomer costume' consisted of a longish tunic worn over matching, full-cut "Turkish trousers."
The illustration shows a pair of late 19th century style bloomers.
Body suit - The thing that looks like a sheer swimsuit.
Brassière, bra - A brassière is a garment which women wear under their other clothes to cover and support their breasts. It is commonly abbreviated to bra today though in American the older term seems to be preferred.
The first modern bras, called bust bodices, came into use in the early twentieth century when the S-curve corsets came into general use. Before that, ladies used shoulder straps with a long corset to give the support required by a full bust, but with the new low cut corset shape, this was no longer possible.
See Lynda Strettons A Small History of Undergarments: Part 1 and Part 2 for a history of the bra.
Bustier - A push up/out strapless bra, sometimes they are long-line (to the navel or shorter) ie the things Madonna made so popular as daywear.

Camisole - I think they are more or less, a fancy undershirt. Worn under sheer blouses or alone with a jacket, etc.
Catsuit - a catsuit, usually made with some sort of stretch knit or lycra, is a tight-fitting full-body article of clothing that mimics a shirt/pant combination.
Chemise - a long camisole which comes to mid or upper thigh, and is generally worn to sleep; spaghetti straps, soft fabric, no gathering at the waist, no built-in support for the breasts. "Princess seaming" is frequently used to describe a chemise. Princess seaming means that the chemise has been sown in such a way as to make it form fitting - the waist is not as wide as rest.
Codpiece - possibly the original underwear as outerwear. It was the triangular piece holding together men's hose in the Renaissance. It provided some measure of support (much like a g-string would today, there really is no back to a codpiece, since it ties to the hose).  It also served as a pocket/purse and was generally stuffed to some extent.
Corset - a rigid garment designed to compress the waist, usually laced at the back, and extending from a bit below the waist about to the bust. Heavy construction with stays (plastic, metal, whalebone, etc.), a laced back with puller eyelets and a front busk with busk hooks. It may or may not have cups and garters (suspenders). They were standard wear for women in society from about 1300s to early 20th century, and reached their heyday in the Victorian era, when just about all women wore them. Also worn at various time by fashionable men, especially army officers.
Corselettes - usually lacy satin things with a lace-up front, rather than the stays and busk construction of an actual corset.

Demi-bra - A 'half-bra', leaving the tops of the breasts exposed. "That's the one found laying around the set of a Demi Moore movie."
Denier Number - A unit of measure for certain fibres. Smaller numbers tend to indicate more shear fabric woven from the fibre.
Directoire Knickers - English name for bloomers qv.

French cut - panties with a high cut on the side of the hip. It gives the appearance of a much longer leg. It is still practically a full cut in the back, just not as wide. High in the front.
French Knickers - like ladies boxers:  freedom like in the male counter-part, but of thin fabric and lace trim, in a more soft and feminine cut.

Garter (UK) -a (usually) restrictive band which goes around the thigh, and holds up (by being wrapped around) a stocking.

Girdle - similar to a corset, but sits lower on the body, so that it flattens and smoothes the stomach and buttocks. When first introduced (in the 20s?) they were also rigid, and laced up, but since the 30s elastic girdles have gradually replaced the rigid style. They may be either open (ie a tube with suspenders for stockings around the bottom), or panty, with legs of various lengths. They used to be almost compulsory uniform for women till the late 60s. Partially replaced by support pantyhose.
G-string - a triangle in front, two strings at the hips go around to the back and connect to another string which comes between the legs up between the cheeks to connect to the other two strings. Otherwise known as "butt floss".

Merrywidow - I have about six definitions for this, all different. Basically a long-bra with a garter snaps hanging off the bottom. Also a brand name somewhere.

Pantyhose - A leg covering, sometimes opaque, sometimes sheer, worn with a skirt. Has a built-in panty. The split-crotch version has a hole in the crotch instead of the ubiquitous cotton panel. Usually made of nylon or nylon/lycra/spandex blend. May also be made of silk.

Petticoat - There is a big difference between a "slip" and a "petticoat" - mostly the amount of material used. The petticoat is designed to be seen, the slip less so.

Racerback Bra - bra straps meeting in the back, but not crisscrossing. They also free your shoulder blades from the chafing of bra straps.

Scantihose - They consist of a fairly narrow waistband with a single hook on each side and a pair of stockings that fastens to those hooks. The stockings appear longer that standard gartered stockings and extend up the hip to where they clip to the waist belt. A brand name in the USA. The belts and the stockings are sold separately so that the optimum fit for both may be achieved.
Scooter or scooter skirt - a pair of shorts that has a panel in the front so that from the front it looks like a skirt and from the back like shorts. They are really cute on both men and women but few men have the courage to wear them out and about.
Slip - See petticoat.
Shift - See chemise. Existed as far back as King Arthur's time.
Singlet - a white sleeveless vest (ribbed tanktop undershirt) worn by older men of the labouring classes in England as a leisure garment. I understand that in Australia the garment is de rigueur in all-male drinking environments (see the film Crocodile Dundee). The word dates from 1746 and was derived by analogy with doublet, meaning the body garment, usually with sleeves, worn by men in the 14th to 18th centuries with hose (ie close-fitting leggings).
Step-in - It's a one-piece with inset unstructured bra cups and bloomer legs, made of embroidered unbleached cotton. The dropped waist bodice is figure-hugging but not restricting, and it buttons up the front. Might also be called a "combination". Vaguely Victorian in appearance.
Stockings - Sometimes refer to pantyhose. Sometimes refer to thigh-highs.
Suspender belt (UK) - this fastens around the waist, and has four (or for real fetishists, six or even eight) vertical elasticised straps  which *suspend* the top of the stocking, by being attached to it by some form of clip.
Suspender hose - It is essentially pantyhose with a large hole cut in the crotch which extended and expanded both front and back and two more large holes, one on each side. The three holes are cut to that they leave a strip around the top to emulate a garter belt, and strips running down to the 'stockings' for suspenders.

Tanga - both a men's and a women's style. Imagine a cross between a string bikini and a high-cut bikini. The women's style generally is a wide elastic waistband and the fabric sewn on only in front and back (like a string bikini). Men's styles are similar, but 'shorter', because men's waists are generally shorter. Might also be called a "Tonga", after the island country?
Teddy - A teddy is a one-piece garment that's a lot like a one-piece bathing suit or a bodysuit, except that it's usually made of nylon or silk (or leather, or plastic, or...). Straps at the shoulders, material covering most of the torso, ending with a panty-like strip through the crotch. May have elastic at the waist. More teddies than not have cotton-lined crotches and snap closures to keep things from being too awkward in the bathroom. A nylon teddy with snap closures is to an underwear camisole what a sleeveless bodysuit is to an outerwear camisole.
Thigh-hi's - two distinct styles. The type that have elastic in the top and are supposed to stay up on their own. The garter-type don't cut off the circulation and are meant to be worn with garters and garter belts. The elastic type are often packaged with talc, so a good wiping with a damp cloth will end the falling-stocking problem.
Tights - See also pantyhose. In the USA, tights are usually opaque and made of thicker material.
Thong - A thong has a strip of fabric up the back. Usually Y-shaped in the back, however the cut of a thong in the back may vary a little bit. But it is definitely wider than a G-string. It is flat and not a string. May be cut high or low in front.

Waspie - A short corset, akin to the waist cincher. It reaches from above the hip bones to just under the breasts. The name derives from wasp-waist, which is the look it is supposed to achieve. May also have garters (for stockings) attached.

Actually, the "what do you call this thing that wraps around my middle?" question can get quite involved, since terms vary depending on what side of the Great Ponds you are on, what region of your country you live in, what region you grew up in, and on what the ad-copy writers were smoking before work.

(1) at least, according to the dictionary.

Un slip (French) is a generic term any kind of bottom underwear. As far as men's underwears are concerned, anything but boxers are called "un slip"; boxers we call caleçon or even caleçon americain.

A women's bottom are also called "slip" but more often "culotte" (talking to your doctor) or "petite culotte" (talking to a friend).

Un bikini (French) is a two-piece swimming suit for women (also in English?)  :  "soutien-gorge de bikini" (top) and "slip de bikini" (bottom).

bra = soutien-gorge (soutenir=to support, gorge=throat but also breast)

g-string = cache-sexe (cacher=to hide, sexe=sexual part)

Confusingly, (French) slip = (English) briefs, the French word for a slip (underskirt or petticoat) being jupon (which also means piece of skirt, ie woman as sexual object). In other cases the French use the English word, e.g. un boxer(-short), un string (=thong).

French for basque is guêpièrre (a basque in French is the lower part of a jacket).

"serre-jaretelles" (serrer = to squeeze, jaretelles = garters) garter belt is "un porte-jaretelles" (porter ~ carry).

As far as I understand, a waspie is a tight-lacing corset which pinches the waist (to create the wasp-waisted look), usually combined with a bra. This may be the same as what the Americans call a Merrywidow and the English call a Basque, in the mistaken belief that this is the French term for it. The French word is actually guêpièrre (guepe =wasp).

Tights are called "panties" in French. Tights are also called "collant(s)" and "collant" is also an adverb meaning sticky. A common mistake that almost everybody does - sometimes on purpose - is to call tights "bas" (which means low). The word "bas" is reserved for stockings.

Stay-up stockings are usually called "dim-up", because Dim was the first to introduce that type of stocking here; or "bas auto-portants" (self-carrying stockings).

In other cases the French use ther American word e.g. un boxer(-short), un string (=thong).

Belgians call boxers "caleçon" or even "caleçon americain".

When tights (pantyhose to Americans) were first invented, the French translation was "Bas-Collants", meaning "clinging stockings". Along the years the usage in France obviously became to call tights just "Collants".

Culottes        =      French for panties      (women's or girl's)
Caleçons        =    French for briefs        (Men's or boy's)

Technically, the term "knickers" refers to feminine underwear with legs of short, medium or long legs, where the bottom of the legs is gathered by elastic to grip the thighs lightly. The longer-legged styles are still made and worn in the UK, and are called "Directoire Knickers" or "DKs". In the USA they would be called bloomers; they too are still made and worn in the USA. Shorter legged knickers are hardly DKs or bloomers, but are just plain "knickers".

By extension, all feminine underpants in the UK can generically be called knickers, and often are, pejoratively or not. Knickers tends to be an all purpose word for the lower part of female underwear, whereas panties tends to be reserved for flimsier, sexier things. Also women tend to refer to what they wear as knickers, whereas men prefer to use more fancy terms. In England "knickers" implies an undergarment not meant for show, as opposed to "panties" which sound to an English ear perhaps a little coy and self-conscious. "Underpants" in England are definitely a man's garment.

In Central Scotland "knickers" does not have connotations of either sex - it's just a term for underpants, panties, etc.

Frilly panties are also known as Rhumba Panties or Sissy panties.

Germany

What Is A Merrywidow?
This may be the same as what the Americans call a Merrywidow and the English call a Basque, in the mistaken belief that this is the French term for it.

Actually, Merrywidow is a trademark for a long-line "corset" (heavy elastic fabric and some light boning reaching from bust to over the hips, heavily stitched bra cups, garters, zipper side) that Warner's marketed in the 1950s. The popularity of the garment lead to anything that resembled it being called a merrywidow. The British call the same type of garment a basque. However, in the USA some folks refer to long-line bras as basques, adding to the confusion.

A waspie is much shorter (comes only to above the hip bones), lacks bra cups, and is more heavily boned in the traditional corset style.

A merrywidow is a corsellette. It consists of a bra/waist cincher combination with garters. They can be either strapless or have straps. Most are strapless. They are very sexy. To be worn correctly they must have stockings worn with them (not pantyhose). Normal colors are black and white but others can be found at specialty stores. Many women don't like them because they are "boned" and stiff. They hold them together.

The term is also applied to a bustier/long-line bra with garter attachments for stockings.

According to other sources a Merry Widow is a cross between a bustier and a garter belt ie. it has boning throughout the torso, is strapless, and ends at mid-hip, with garters attached to the bottom.

I'm a male and I don't have the courage to go buy women's lingerie for myself; what can I do?
Buy your lingerie mail order, though finding out what the correct size is going to be a problem. Since you can't get the courage up to go try some on in the store, you'll have to pay for your mistakes. If you can screw up the courage to go in the lingerie store in some far-distant place, then don't worry - most sales clerks are more interested in making a sale than who is eventually going to wear the lingerie.

I've been looking for the perfect seamed stockings?
Use an eye-liner pen to draw a seam down the backs of your legs ;)

What are "Days of the Week" panties?
I also have seen "When Harry Met Sally" and Sally was wrong. There was a pair of panties for Sunday. I received my set of "Days" as a Xmas present in 1971. They came in a box and were purchased from J.C.Penney. Each pair was a different colour and the stitching for the day was also in colour. Sunday was white with pink lettering; Monday was light green with orange lettering; Tuesday was yellow with dark green lettering; Wednesday was light blue with dark blue lettering; Thursday was pink with dark pink lettering; Friday was red with black lettering; Saturday was black with red lettering.

What do the letter 'D', 'C' or 'DD' mean in bra sizes?
The number part (ie the 36 in 36D) is the number of inches around the chest, under the breasts. The letter is the number of 'extra' inches between the above measurement and the number of inches around the fullest part of the bust. A = 1", B = 2", C = 3", etc. There are some twists to it, (like the first measurement is always even, round up; the letter part after D varies by manufacturer).

When were bra cups sizes standardized?
According to an article published in Mademoiselle just recently and confirmed by Warner's, standardized cup sizing was introduced in 1935 by Warner's to replace the rather vague small, average, and full demarcations used previously.

And All Was Revealed. Doreen Caldwell, St. Martin's, 1981.

Dress and Undress: A History of Women's Underwear. Elizabeth Ewing. Drama Book Specialists, 1978.

Chastity In Focus.
Despite its name this is an artistic record of some of Janet Reger's lingerie; mainly in colour but some B&W (there are also some 'gimmicky' photographic effects which I think are a bit of a distraction but thankfully these are in the minority). Published by Quartet Books Ltd., ISBN 0 7043 2259 5.

Fashion and Eroticism. Valerie Steele, Oxford University Press, 1986.
An interesting source for lacing and other erotic garments, well footnoted and some interesting plates of different garments.

Fashion and Fetishism. David Kunzle, Rowman and Littlefield, 1982.
The author offers many quotes from periodicals, letters, interviews etc of the 1800 (well defended, all sources footnoted) and provides an interesting prospective about figure training, fetish tight lacing etc. Also addresses 'finishing schools', punishment corsets etc. Very informative

The Girdle of Chastity. ???  Dingwall, , 1959.
Available in most large university libraries.

The Great Book of Lingerie. Cecil Saint-Laurent, Vendome Press, 1986
Ddistributed by Rizzoli International Publications.

Lingerie and Leisurewear with your Overlocker (Serger). Linette Maritz, New Holland (Publishers) Ltd, London, . ISBN 1-85368-343-4.
I haven't actually made anything from it yet, but it all looks pretty clear and easy to use.

The Lingerie Book. By M. Gray, St. Martins Press.
Color and B&W photos expose the ways in which a woman's lingerie symbolizes her sexuality.

Lingerie Fantasies. By M. Gray, St. Martins Press.
Color and B&W photos that explore the power of lingerie to fill the imagination with erotic and playful fantasies.

Lingerie in Vogue Since 1910. Abbeville Press, 1982

Making Lingerie and Nightwear. Nicholas Bullen, Mills and Boon, ???.
Good clues to straightforward shaping.

Underwear - The Fashion History. By Alison Carter, published by Bartsford.

Unmentionables. ???, , 1933.
Has a chapter on chastity belting.

What we Wore. Ellen Melinkoff. ISBN 0-688-02839-X.
It goes into the history of girdles from the 40s to the 70s. As well as the rise and fall and rise of hemlines.

The September/October 1995 special issue of American Photo magazine is about lingerie photography. It features the work of Arthur Elgort,  Sheila Metzner, Helmut Newton, Ellen von Unwerth and others. There is an article about the making of a Victoria's Secret catalog and another on boudoir photography.

Bras. Rosemary Hawthorne, Souvenir Press, 1992. ISBN 0 2856 3086 5.
Reminiscences of a collector. (Found in an 'Old Times' shop in UK.) There is a companion book Panties (or briefs?)

Body Packaging. Julian Robinson, Macmillan, Australia, 1988. ISBN 0 3335 0157 8.
Clothing generally, some discussion on corsets. Worth reading.

Dress and Undress. Iris Brook, Methuen London, 1958.
Mostly costume drawings.

Dress and Undress. Elizabeth Ewing, Batsford, London, 1978. ISBN 0 7134 1629 7.
Basically same book, but more illustrations, more up to date.

Fashion And Eroticism. Valerie Steele, Oxford University Press, Melbourne, 1985.
The book is well-written and exhaustively researched; the author makes a convincing case that much of the shrillest criticism in fact represented a reaction against female sexuality, tight-lacing being one of the few ways a woman could express sexuality.

Fashion in Underwear. Elizabeth Ewing, Batsford, London, 1971. ISBN 07134 0857 X.
Well written, scholarly.

A History of Womens Underwear. Cecil Saint Laurent, Academy Editions, London, 1986. ISBN 0 8567 0901 8.
Primarily an enthusiasts' book. Expensive, many nice illustrations, good bibliography (esp European refs).

Lingerie in Vogue. Christina Probert, Thames & Hudson, 1981. Many illustrations, in gimmicky Vogue style.

Whalebone to See Through. Michael Colmer, Cassel, Australia, 1979. ISBN 0 7269 1394 4.
Primarily a picture book, but nice illustrations, mostly from ads.

Bibliography From "Whalebone To See Through"

The History of Lingerie. MDC Crawford & EG Crawford, Fairchild, NY, 1952.

The Strouse, Adler Story. Strouse, Adler Co, New Haven, Conn, 1962.

The Corset. Benedict Zilliacus, Oy Sjoblom Ab Finland and Ab Corset Industry, Sweden, 1963.

The Future out of the Past. Arthur Pearce, The Warner Bros Co, Bridgeport, Conn, 1963.

In Our Own Fashion. R & WH Symington Co, Harley Publishing Co, London, 1956.

The Unfashionable Human Body. Bernard Rudowsky, Doubleday, NY, 1971.

This discussion of denier numbers and what not has been condensed from several erudite posts from ACLs' resident knitting gurus. Seriously interested readers are referred to rec.knitting for more details. "And to think that I used to judge sheerness and so on by touch or looks!"

Denier is an indirect measure of the thickness of a yarn or thread. Denier is the weight in grams of 9000 meters of yarn. Or said more incredibly, one ounce of 30 denier yarn would stretch about six miles (unless it was Lycra in which case it would stretch even farther). By comparison, the finest silk yarns are around 800 meters per kilogram, so when you get down to the level of the denier, you're talking seriously fine yarn.

But denier is not a comparable measure of thickness. This is because each material or type of fibre or filament has its own specific gravity (volume per unit of weight or density). For example, due to their different specific gravities, 40 denier nylon and 40 denier polyester have different thicknesses. Denier is therefore primarily useful as a comparative measure of thickness for a particular type of yarn - a smaller denier rayon for example would be thinner than a larger denier rayon. The yarn size and knitting machine cut determine the sheerness of the fabric.

"But really sheer lingerie fabric is like 15 deniers which is about as thin a fabric as you can find."

A 15 denier yarn, unless it is a monofilament yarn, is comprised of many strands of yarn, each having their own denier. The DPF, or denier per filament, is the measure of this. If the DPF is under one, the yarn is classified as "micro-fibre". Thus, in a single ply 15 denier micro-fibre yarn with a DPF of .94, the yarn would be designated as 15D/16. You divide 15 by 16 to get the DPF or denier per filament of the yarn bundle. In this case the DPF would be .94 which would classify it as a "micro-fibre" because it has a DPF of under 1. There would be 16 strands of fiber with a DPF of .94 twisted together to create a single yarn of 15 denier. The greater the number of strands of fibre in a yarn bundle the softer and more supple the hand and the greater the bulk. Thus a 15D/16 would be softer, thicker, and bulkier than a 15D/3, which would have a DPF of 5. For most apparel yarns, the DPF is under 2.

The gauge of a fabric is the number of needles in 1 1/2 inches on the knitting machine. It is a term that is very rarely used anymore. Knitting machines now use word "cut" which is the number of needles in one inch i.e. a 28 cut machine has 28 needles per inch.

In the 50s, stockings were knitted from a monofilament, and formed an attractive pattern under a microscope. Perfectly even loops of shiny transparent cylindrical rod in the basic stitch every knitter would recognize. Today they are knitted from multiple filaments, sometimes using a more complex stitch pattern, and under a microscope they look like an engineers nightmare; a mess of tight loops knitted from a thread that looks for all the world like old-fashioned binder twine. I would hate to have to design the machine that persuaded this intractable looking material into something as even, and attractive, as pantyhose.

Two thousand years ago, a little old lady with two knitting needles could make any stitch that todays high-speed computer-operated machines make. The different appearance is caused by multifilament yarns, the yarn bundles themselves, various fibre cross-sections, and yarn spinning and texturizing processes.

The numbers we have been talking about are impossible to visualize but we can get some idea of what they mean by looking at our hair. My hair is unusually fine; about 30 microns, Lady B.'s is fairly coarse; about 50 microns, and that of a Japanese girl who once stayed with us, and scattered very obvious black hairs around the house, was 75 microns. Converting these into denier we get, very roughly, 7, 20, and 40 respectively.

In recent years a competition has developed between Italian and Japanese spinning mills (or tailors?) to buy the best bale of the finest wool for the year. The price has reached astronomic levels, and this year the top bale was sold for close to $1,000,000. I think this wool was something like 7 micron, or about one denier; but denier is a measure for extruded fibre only, not wool or cotton. The sheep wear plastic coats to keep the wool clean, and are kept permanently in sheds to avoid light and water damage. This wool will be blended, then woven into a cloth which in turn will be made into prestige suits. I gather that each suit will actually contain only an ounce or so of the magic wool.

Nylon is somewhat denser than hair (I think), so the diameter of the thread would be somewhat smaller, and the single thread in the old 15 denier sheer stockings would have been roughly the same diameter as fine hair. The thread in modern stockings would have about the same overall diameter, but consists of a number of much finer threads (comparable with the best superfine wool) twisted together.

I did a check this morning at a suburban branch of our biggest department store. Not all brands specify their denier, but the general pattern was ultra-sheer; 12, sheer; 15, service 20-30, semi-opaque; 40, and opaque; 70. Several of the European brands also specified a 2nd value; 15d (17 decitex) or 20d (22 dtx). I believe the dtx is the number of individual strands that comprise the yarn bundle, the DPF, or else the denier in a metric measure. [I can't find decitex anywhere; can someone clear up this mystery?]

Till the mid 50s, all stockings were plain knit monofilament. This had no stretch, and so the stockings were seamed (they were knitted flat, and sewn together up the back) and 'fully fashioned' (ie additional stitches were added up each side of the back of the lower leg so that they tapered to fit the leg better). They were very fragile, and laddered readily. I believe that you could wreck a pair simply by walking past the exhaust of an idling car.

In about 1955, seamless stretch stockings were introduced. These were knitted in a circular tube, and a more elastic polyfilament yarn was used, making them sufficiently elastic to fit without having to add the extra stitches previously required. They did not feel as nice as the old ones, and certainly men felt they were less glamorous without the seam, though I suspect most women were very glad they no longer had to worry about keeping them straight.

At the same time, or perhaps a bit later, 'run-resistant' stockings were introduced. These had a very complex pattern, and if they were snagged developed holes rather than runs. They felt even rougher, and you could see a faint pattern of little circles if you looked at them closely. No doubt any competent knitter could have copied the stitch, but I don't think it would have been easy. I have looked at them under a microscope, long ago, and think that loops were turned over, ducked sideways, and some skipped one or more rows, in a very tangled web.

Corseting is a body modification. It's a process of years and years of gradual change. Girls were fist corseted at age 7 or 8 and wore a corset almost every day of their lives. It's almost impossible, and foolish, to lace down 6" from your natural waist all at once. But you start out lacing down 2" smaller and in 6 months to a year you can easily lace 3", and then 4" and over years of wear 6" from a "natural" waist is achieved.

Consider the way that a ring indents your finger over time and you never even really notice that it's doing it. It's a slow body modification that isn't necessarily uncomfortable. If you were to size down your ring every few years you soon would have quite a deep indent that would have been very painful to do on the first day you put on that ring.

A corset's measurement is inside diameter. And a dress would need to cover the corset, corset chemise (sometimes inner and outer ones), and the waist of any crinolines or bustles that were worn, so it would be that much larger. Certainly there were women of the period who laced to 13" while others - more matronly - may have only achieved 28" or 30". As with modern women, there was a range of body sizes.

A corset can be quite comfortable once one is used to it. It provides wonderful support to your back and makes for excellent posture. As to "disfigured", that's a modern judgement. Who is to say that dieting, low body fat, plucked eyebrows, pierced ears, breast augmentation, and other modern body modifications aren't disfiguring?

Keep in mind also that the corset was a moral garment. Only a "loose woman" went about uncorseted. It was a socially proper garment, a sign that the lady was indeed a lady. Women wanted to wear them.

The Guinness Book of Records states that the smallest waist in someone of normal stature was Mrs Ethel Granger of Peterborough who reduced from a natural 22" to 13" under a period of 10 years (starting when she was 24 years old). This wasp waist was also show by a french actress by the name of Mlle Polaire. Queen Catherine de Medici (1519-89) decreed a waist measurement of 13 3/4 in for ladies of the French court, but this was at a time when the human race was more diminutive.

A source that I found on WWW ("A Mini-History of the Corset") states that there were many reports of waists between 18 and 14 in (with corsets) in the late 19th century. Even 12 inch waists are mentioned!

Ethel's husband wrote a book about her experience. It's a slim tome that is now out of print, but I know that Insight Books carries it. (Address below.)  Ethel's corsets were specially constructed for the maximum compression of the lower ribs (wasp-waist). This is an extreme body modification that, while it apparently did not harm her health, deformed her waist to a truly unnatural degree. I'm a corset fan and I have a hard time finding such extremes attractive, but I do find them interesting.

Apparently her husband would not allow her to be measured uncorseted and unbelted, but I would imagine that her uncorseted waist was at least 2" larger. There are photos of her both with and without her corsets. She apparently wore a corset constantly and it took the better part of a decade to achieve her minimum waist. Note that the Re/Search 12, Modern Primitives, has a section on corseting and some pictures of Ethel Granger with and without her corset.

Insight Books Post Office Box 2575, Menlo Park, California 94026-2575 USA Phone:  (415)324-0543 also carry other books on corseting and publish Body Play magazine, perhaps the best current magazine that covers corseting as a body modification.

The newsgroup alt.clothing.lingerie is worth visiting. Unfortunately it is increasingly filling with adverts but has occasional worthwhile articles.